Quercus Books

Interesting post! I didn’t know this comma was called the Oxford comma. I thought it was the American way to list items while UK-English would not use the comma. Maybe I’m wrong. Must be, if it’s called the Oxford comma!

I prefer no comma, but I’m non-native. I lived in the UK for a long time, but I’m Dutch, and there is no way that we would use an extra comma here in the Netherlands.

I’d say leave the comma out, use it only if it helps to disambiguate a sentence, like in the Barnes and Noble example.

And to answer your first question, yes, I hate it when people use an apostrophe for a plural word. Though the very worst in my eyes, is “it’s” in its wrong usage. Brr!

I have to disagree with Judith as I’m actually a fan of the Oxford comma (both grammatical device and Vampire Weekend song), though was similarly unaware as to it’s technical name.

I’d be interested in your opinion on something related to your ‘Barnes and Noble’ example. I was told by someone that when writing a list that ended with an “x and y” phrase, the correct form is to use an ampersand for the final ‘and’.

e.g. “we have experience in asset management, capital markets, and mergers & acquisitions”

Is this correct?

(Obviously this wouldn’t apply in the case of Barnes and Noble)

I am a believer in the Oxford Comma, but I recognize that it is fading from general use.

I am interested in how email and texting will change general grammar over the next generation or so.

I’ve noticed certain words becoming interchangeable (then & than, barely and barley, the many homonyms of there, etc.), and I wonder about the future of the semicolon.

Is “disambiguate” a word, invention or fantasy? I dont think “”Is “disambiguate” a word,inventation, or fantasy “”reads correctly, so why would “or” be any different from “and” and this is another killer blow for the Oxford comma

I agree with Ed – I quite like the Oxford comma.

I read Eats, Shoots and Leaves ages ago and that’s how I first learned about the OC. I have worked in publishing as an editor for the last five years but have never had a house style say do or don’t use the OC. Some of my authors, however, despise; perhaps that’s why I quite like it.

Nice entry by the way!

The Chicago Manual of Style (is anyone on the internet aware that such a thing exists?) says use the serial comma. The AP Stylebook says no. In old-timey, printed publications, you used whatever style your editor told you to. Magazines generally followed Chicago style. Newspapers, AP style.

Today’s online writing and publishing, without unnecessary things like editors, lacks any kind of style.

Sigh.

The purpose of punctuation is to aid clarity. The comma, for me, is a printed indicator of a short pause. Therefore the commonsense answer is to say the sentence out loud and use the Oxford Comma when it sounds as if it should be there.

I use it sometimes but most times not because of the whole single entity thing, it can be confusing knowing what sounds right and I seem to remember being taught that if you use “and” you don’t need it because the commas are for the list and the “and” the last point of the list. It’s one thing I’m truly not bothered about when it comes to grammar.

I think it was something that was thrashed into me when I was small, so whenever I see that extra comma, I can’t help but shudder. I didn’t even realise until I became an adult that it was actually ok to put in that extra comma. So I’m afraid the Oxford comma is out for me.

I hate the Oxford comma unless it’s required for absolute clarity. It always want to take a red pen to it.

I’m a huge fan of the Oxford comma, though mostly for stylistic reasons. Since the whole OC thing has been in debate I’ve noticed that I use it very, very often in my own fiction writing. I like the pause that if lends to a sentence, and the clarity that it can give in longer clauses. (Ta da!)

Sometimes I think it would be really useful for cases of clarity. I was once in a cafe reading the desserts menu when I came across an icecream sundae that boasted:

vanilla, chocolate, cream and cookies and cream icecream.

Or something similar. I spent some time trying to figure out what it was actually offering me. Perhaps a little OC might help.

Hah! I hate the Oxford comma, although for personal and purely selfish reasons. GUD Magazine house style is to use this comma, but I was never taught it, and so I miss its absence and end up getting sent back to insert it by our senior copy-editor.

Finally! I have always thought I was on my own with the Oxford comma (never knew what it was called before). It drives me crazy when I read a document and see people leaving the comma out.

I think the Oxford comma is essential for clarity, and gives the impression that the writer put some thought into their work to ensure their readers are not left confused.

Now, I’m biased in that I work for Oxford, but I’m a fan. I never used to use it before I worked here, but now several years later I think things look very strange without them!

Debbie, I sympathise. I don’t think it’s essential, but it can clarify meaning in some cases. I tend to think commas can be used more or less depending on preference in many cases. It depends on your style and whether the work needs lots of reading pauses or not.

Good article.

I’m a big fan of the Oxford comma. I think the article could have made a better case than the book sellers example. For example,

Film topics include fantasy, biography, cops and robbers [three topics with 'cops and robbers being one topic].
Film topics include fantasy, biography, cops, and robbers [four topics with cops and robbers being separate topics].

@ David Potter
The Oxford comma applies to any co-ordinating conjunction. Therefore it applies to lists with ‘and’ and well as ‘or’ and ‘nor.’ The article seems to have selected one case – ‘and’ – but this is not the full extent of the Oxford comma. I hope this disambiguates the issue for you. (Friendly joke.)

Has anybody else seen this topic on Wikipedia (serial comma is the term they use)? I love this:

Common arguments for consistent use of the serial comma:
1. Use of the comma is consistent with conventional practice.
…
Common arguments against consistent use of the serial comma:
1. Use of the comma is inconsistent with conventional practice.

Ref: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Serial_comma

When all’s said and done, I’m not precious about the Oxford comma. I’m glad that people want to keep talking about language.

I suppose that the name gives away the idea that the Oxford comma is a question of taste and style, although I don’t know the history. Did its use originate in Oxford or was Oxford the last place to give it up? Either way, it’s a deliberate choice rather than a requirement whose lack ‘feels wrong’. Grammatically, it’s not usually essential, but if you’re going to have a standard, then I reckon it’s best to use it rather than avoid it, since then when you do actively need it, your ‘house style’ isn’t compromised.

David Potter,
“Is “disambiguate” a word, invention or fantasy?” Here I think we do need the Oxford comma, since in these days of comma-spliced sentences, when we don’t know the educational level of the writer, this could easily be questioning whether ‘disambiguate’ exists, or if it’s just ‘invention or fantasy’, whereas I think you want it to give us the option of three states to choose from. If I don’t know that’s what you mean, though, for clarity I want to replace the existing comma with a question mark and punctuate the whole thing much more strongly: “Is “disambiguate” a word? Is it invention or fantasy?” Thus here we see that the absence of the Oxford comma does make the sentence ambiguous if the source is not recognised as reliable. Perhaps the problem here is the semantic closeness of the last two adjectives, but in any case, it rather points out that the Oxford comma is needed if you want to demonstrate tight control of your writing.

In summary: use the Oxford Comma if you want to appear well-educated.

The use of the serial comma is purely contextual. Clearly, it deprives the sentence of beauty when used without the essential need but when needed, it empowers the text in, may I say, a classy way.

Anyone who declines to use the Holy Oxford Comma (the HOC) should be punished!

I’m all for the Oxford Comma, because when I’m listing things like that, I verbally put a comma there. I don’t swing straight into the last item as if it doesn’t stand on its own.

I’m on the side of the serial/Oxford comma supporters, as recommended by the Chicago Manual of Style (the new 16th version having just arrived on my doorstep yesterday) and the New Hart’s Rules. I will grudgingly omit it in my Twitter postings, where dumping the comma in order to gain an extra character can be critical. I know the Associated Press recommend its omission but even they acknowledge that it can be crucial in battling ambiguity.

Oh, and oddly enough, down at the pub yesterday there was no-one who seemed to be in the least bit interested in the status of the Oxford comma. I can’t imagine why not.

Slightly off thread, but still linked. What drives me mad are bullet points that (a) have semi colons at the end of each line, and worse (b) the word ‘and’ at the end of the penultimate line. While they work in a conventional sentence list, surely it’s totally pedantic and wrong to retain them in bullet points!

Nicely done my friend